Phoebe Tonkin on the Joy of Making Boy Swallows Universe

Long before she nabbed the part of Eli’s mother Frankie, Tonkin was your average fan of Dalton’s most-talked-about work. She remembers the book being everywhere in Australia when it first came out. It was the book-club book at the time, and her mother gifted her with it for Christmas in 2019. When she got the job a few years later, Tonkin revisited the material, and this time, reading it was a bit surreal. Instead of picturing someone else as Frankie, she was picturing herself. The original text ultimately became Tonkin’s bible while filming. “Having a book, especially a book so detailed as Trent’s book, was so invaluable for creating this story,” Tonkin says. “Television is also a very different medium, but it just added such a strong foundation.” 

In addition to the book, Tonkin consistently referred back to an interview with Dalton where he explained his reasons for writing the book. “[Trent] shared that he was sitting with his mom, who Frankie is based on, in the garden with his young daughters. He shared that his mom turned to him and said, ‘I wouldn’t change anything in my life because it all led to this moment sitting here with you and watching my grandchildren dancing in the sunlight,’” she says. “For me, every time I would have a question about a scene or a line, it all just went back to that. … Even though things can be really hard and so unfair and so painful, there is something to be gleaned out of it. Hopefully, we’re all lucky enough to get to the end of our lives and look back at the patchwork of what got us there and think the same thing—that I wouldn’t have made any different decisions because I would have not wanted to change anything. For me, that was essentially the essence of the book and the essence of the show as well.”

Throughout the series, we see Frankie at different stages of her addiction—going through withdrawals, doing drugs, and recovering—but despite her sometimes questionable decision-making, Frankie’s love for her children is her North Star always. For Tonkin, this became her objective and driving force throughout the six months of filming. “Just because she doesn’t always make the perfect choice as a mother doesn’t mean she’s not a good mom, and it doesn’t mean she’s not trying to be a good mom, so for me, it was holding onto that piece of information. She just loves her kids so much, and she’s doing the best she can, and sometimes, that is it,” Tonkin explains.

Where the role became truly transformative for Tonkin was in the research. She immersed herself in as many books, blogs, and podcasts on addiction and recovery as possible. She read countless firsthand stories from people struggling with addiction themselves as well as their families. “I’ve always had so much compassion for people who struggle with addiction, and the stigma that people aren’t trying their best is just not true,” she says. “Looking at people’s stories like that versus this cliché idea of doing drugs, there’s a reason for it. There’s remorse. There’s guilt. There’s pain.” 

There’s a line in the show that says, “It gets so good that you’ll forget it was ever bad.” It goes back to the message Dalton shared about his mother: After it all, she has no regrets because it got her to where she is today. Tonkin still repeats that line to herself all the time, especially when things aren’t good. It’s a constant reminder that, despite any turmoil in life, there is still hope.  

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Cleo Wade Releases Most Personal Work Yet With Remember Love

“This book is the most me I’ve ever felt on a page consistently,” Cleo Wade says of her fifth published work, a collection of prose and poetry called Remember Love: Words for Tender Times. Hitting shelves October 17, Remember Love explores how we can return to the light in darker times, how we find steadiness in the midst of an ever-changing and chaotic world, how we find love again after heartbreak, and how we find strength in letting go. On the page, it is Wade at her most vulnerable, a diary of sorts. For that reason, she is feeling understandably different about this piece of work. There’s a different sense of pride—not just that she wrote a book but that she did the work on herself and could create a road map for others. And there’s a different nervousness in finally sharing it with the world. “It’s really a personal triumph for me,” she says. 

Remember Love came to Wade at a time when she least expected it. The New York Times best-selling author, activist, and poet had released four books—including Heart Talk, Where to Begin, and the children’s book What the Road Said—in rapid succession. After wrapping up an extended book tour while pregnant and splitting her time between Los Angeles, New York, and London, she hit severe burnout. She was unsure of what her future book life looked like and told her literary agent she wanted to explore different avenues and that she’d come back to writing in five years. Shortly after, Wade bumped into postpartum depression after the birth of her first daughter. As she sat in the bathtub one night with her mind in a haze as she listened to a meditation podcast by Tara Brach, attempting to do things she knows are good for her, she heard Brach say two words: “Remember love.” A light bulb clicked on. 

“In the way that I know people have this experience with my own work, I had something snap in me,” Wade says. “It didn’t heal my postpartum depression, but I was in this fog, and it just gave me this bubble of clarity where I could witness myself for two minutes and be like, ‘Oh, whatever I think I’m doing, I need to change what my strategy is around getting through this.’ ‘Remember love’ ended up being the mantra that helped me because I was able to notice how love was not manifesting for myself. … I heard myself beating up myself, and I couldn’t hear that before because I was caught being that voice. There was almost this new thing that came, and that was to remember love. Can I be nice to myself? Could I be gentle? Could I look to this bottom place as a foundational starting point to change my life and my viewpoint? I got a Post-it note, and I wrote ‘Please remember love’ on it. I put it on the top of a board, and I started mapping this book from it.”

Wade went straight into reflection mode, recalling all of her life moments where it would have helped to remember love at the time. She went through experiences of personal heartbreak, the times she observed her friends go through things, the best advice she’d received from friends, and anything that she thought could be helpful to someone else. I describe this book as I went into the darkest rooms of my personal self or history and retraced my steps to how I found a light within to relight the room, refind myself, rebuild life in some way,” Wade says. 

A few weeks before the release, we caught up with Wade to talk about the scary process of writing Remember Love, the idea that love is our birthright, and creating the ultimate community on tour.

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