Life at Guantánamo Bay – The New York Times

Around 780 people have been detained at the prison at Guantánamo Bay since it opened in January 2002. Thirty men remain there today, many of whom have not been charged.

The podcast “Serial,” which debuted in 2014 with the story of a questionable murder conviction, has dedicated its new season to Guantánamo. Over nine episodes, it tells the story of the prison through a personal lens, by way of conversations with people who worked or were detained there.

I spoke with the hosts, Sarah Koenig and Dana Chivvis, about the show.

Desiree: There’s an interesting political story to be told about Guantánamo, but why did you decide to tell this story through the people who lived through it?

Sarah: The government threw all of these normal people on Guantánamo, and they had to sort out how on earth are we supposed to behave in here, how are we supposed to make sense of this? So over the course of 20 years, you saw this thing, which was kind of like a terrible spasm in the national response to 9/11, harden into something that was trying to justify and sustain itself. I think that’s what we were interested in: Who were those people who are having to make decisions, who are having to survive a thing not of their own making, and what did that look like and what did that feel like?

In the reporting of the podcast, did anything upend your preconceived notions or surprise you about Guantánamo?

Dana: The people who work in Guantánamo for the military rotate in and out about every nine months, but the prisoners have been there, so very quickly the prisoners learned how the prison operated better than the guard force did. I heard a lot of stories about prisoners who would correct the guards and be like, “No, no, you need to give me 10 squares of toilet paper,” or “You’re not handcuffing me right. Let me show you how to do it.”

And I think the thing that surprised me the most as I started digging into it was that we were told by the Bush administration that these are the worst of the worst, these are the people who did 9/11. As it turned out, they were not, and the people who worked in Guantánamo — and a lot of people in the Bush administration — knew that from within months of the first prisoners’ arriving. There wasn’t a tremendous amount of screening going on. It was really like an overflow room for the war in Afghanistan. And the prisoners who are there, and were there, have now been dipped in this toxic paint of this place forever.

One thing that struck me was that while things at Guantánamo were scary and unsettling, it was also a really surreal place.

Sarah: I think the thing that a lot of people either don’t know or forget is that it’s just a naval base. Like a normal naval base, it has sandwich shops and a coffee shop and a school and a chapel. It’s just when you first visit there, you’re not psychically ready to see that. But by the third time I went, I wasn’t even noticing that stuff. Once, I was there with these young people from various N.G.O.s who were there to observe the court, and one guy goes, “I got a coffee this morning, and then this woman told me to ‘have a nice day,’ and I was like, What are you talking about? How can I have a nice day?” And I was like, “Oh, you’re a newcomer. You’ll get over that.”

How have you seen Guantánamo evolve?

Sarah: When I was first reporting on it in the early 2000s, there were hundreds of prisoners there, and it felt very active and very violent and very scary and very shocking. And in 2015, I think there were 122 people. It wasn’t like the bad wasn’t still happening, but it had dug in for the long term. These people just live here now, and the court is chugging along. It felt very like an institution.

To me it feels like it’s in its last throes, and it’s sort of falling apart. But it’s interesting — I spoke to an attorney who has been working there for more than a decade on the same case, and he was like, “Every time you come, you think this thing is about to fall apart, and I’m here to tell you: You have no idea whether it’s falling apart.”

Listen to the first two episodes of the season here.

For more

THE LATEST NEWS

Middle East

Other Big Stories

• A woman in Texas who was falsely charged with murder after using an abortion pill has filed a lawsuit against the local prosecutor’s office and its leaders.

• Thousands gathered on Long Island for the funeral of a New York City police officer who was shot to death in the line of duty. His killing has become a political flashpoint.

• Chance Perdomo, an actor known for his roles in the series “Gen V” and “Chilling Adventures of Sabrina,” died on Friday at 27.

THE SUNDAY DEBATE

Will the collapse of Francis Scott Key Bridge hurt the Port of Baltimore?

Yes. The bridge’s destruction has cut off one of the busiest ports in the country. “The biggest generator of who knows how many millions of sticky dollars over the centuries, dollars that stuck right here, is at a standstill,” Will Englund writes for The Washington Post.

No. The problems won’t be as severe as people think. “Given the hard lessons learned during the past decade, significant price shocks or product shortages are unlikely,” Tinglong Dai writes for The Baltimore Banner.

I’ll be part of a new Q. and A. franchise, The Interview, that’s launching in late April. Before then, I’m sharing some of my favorite past interviews. This one, from 2022, is with the stand-up comedian Jerrod Carmichael, who was then dealing with the familial fallout of having publicly come out as gay in his HBO special “Rothaniel.”

You’re trying hard to tell the truth these days, but aside from what’s going on with your family, does committing to honesty present problems in your day-to-day life? It’s not easy to be fully honest with everyone.

Oh, people get mad at you. I don’t like that but I know that’s a part of telling the truth — the reaction isn’t consistent. I used to lie to keep a consistent reaction, which was all about Like me, like me, like me. I told the truth about who I am and now there’s a rift with my mom. I was lying because it was more pleasant.

For other people.

For other people! And thus for me. I don’t like not talking to my mom. But it’s a byproduct of being honest. That’s the part of coming out, the relationship with my mom, that I don’t like. It was a truth I was afraid to say because of that one relationship. But it’s who I am.

What did you feel inside when you delivered material that conveyed one thing about who you were when the truth was another?

I don’t know, man. I don’t know because I wouldn’t have called myself gay. I could not accept that. That’s why it’s important for me to say it now. There are certain phrases that have no substitute. Like “I’m gay” or telling someone “I’m sorry.” But people can live in cognitive dissonance. I did.

Read more of the interview here.

BOOKS

King of King’s: “Carrie,” Stephen King’s debut novel, was published 50 years ago next month. The Times Book Review’s editor, Gilbert Cruz, offers a guide to the author’s essential books.

Borrowed titles: Many modern book names allude to other works of literature. A.O. Scott explores our habit of dressing up new writing in secondhand words.

Our editors’ picks: “The Morningside,” a book about a version of New York in climate collapse, and seven other books.

Times best sellers: Percival Everett’s book “Erasure” was adapted into the Oscar-winning movie “American Fiction.” His latest release, “James,” a reimagining of Mark Twain’s “Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,” is new on the hardcover fiction list.

THE MORNING RECOMMENDS …

Cool down with a good fan.

Look good in the best cheap sunglasses.

Spend 36 hours in Mumbai, India.

Read “Where Rivers Part,” a memoir by Kao Kalia Yang.

THE WEEK AHEAD

What to Watch For

• Today is Easter.

• Connecticut, New York, Rhode Island and Wisconsin hold primaries on Tuesday.

• Donald Trump has until Thursday to post a $175 million bond in his New York civil fraud case, after an appeals court lowered the amount and gave him more time.

Meal Plan

In her Five Weeknight Dishes newsletter, Emily Weinstein encourages you to make rice bowls for dinner. Try out Eric Kim’s extremely delicious and extremely simple bacon and egg don. Or whip up a salmon and rice bowl, which comes together in one pot.

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