Hideo Kojima Talks Death Stranding 2: On the Beach: ‘I’m Just Really Happy We Can Finish Making the Game’
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It’s been a while since videogames were more than just action-filled, nerve-wracking experiences. Metal Gear Solid mastermind Hideo Kojima’s Death Stranding established the two opposites of division and connection as its themes during a pre-pandemic world, and its highly conceptual story structure and innovative delivery- centered movement mechanics blew open new possibilities.
Now in its sequel, Death Stranding 2: On the Beach, he poses the same question in an even more complicated form: “Should we have connected?” With its June 26, 2025 release quickly approaching, we wanted to know what kind of position Kojima had taken when creating its story now that the divisions in our world only continue to grow.
The development of Death Stranding 2 proceeded under the unprecedented circumstances of the Covid pandemic. How exactly did Kojima reconsider the meaning of “connection” and reconstruct it while being forced to reckon with his understanding of technology, production environments, and the nature of our
relationships with one another?
In this interview, Kojima talks about his philosophy framing the game’s production, what was left behind in the previous game and carried on to the new one, and contemporary society and its relationship to his games.
New Locations and New Elements
IGN: What were you trying to accomplish for Death Stranding’s sequel?
Kojima: I’d like to ask you to think back to the beginning of Metal Gear Solid. No weapons appear at first, and you only acquire them after going up the elevator. Placing weapons at the very start will cause players to pick them up and start killing enemies, so we consciously decided to not do that. But that part turned out to be unpopular, with some people saying they couldn’t get up the elevator. Still, we had to design Metal Gear Solid so that players learned how stealth works. For Metal Gear Solid 2, we made it a little easier to use weapons and aim at specific parts using a POV angle, as many players were already aware of stealth games.
It was the same for Death Stranding. There aren’t many games about delivery, so we first had to get people accustomed to it first. For the sequel, we wanted to allow players that want to fight to do so more freely. Players can use weapons, and it’s now easier to drive cars and motorcycles. For the story, the first game was about Sam and Cliff, but this time one of the main themes is Lou and what her existence means.
IGN: Death Stranding depicts deeply emotional themes such as loss and sorrow. Are these based on your own experiences?
Kojima: About half of what I create is based on real experiences, while the other half is based on fictional experiences. Themes like where people go when they die come from a very private place.
IGN: What made you choose Mexico and Australia as new locations for Death Stranding 2?
Kojima: I can’t say too much, but first of all, Mexico is contiguous to the UCA, and there was a need to connect to neighboring cities. As Sam says many times, it’s possible that it could lead to an invasion. In the first game, players connected America from east to west. This does mirror the pioneer age, but are we going to do the same thing when making the sequel? My initial thought was to do something completely different, which was a story about cutting off connections. But doing that would mean reusing the setting and environment of the first game.
My thought process was that we needed a continent that’s about as long across as North America that faces the ocean to both the north and south. Eurasia would be too large, and Africa wasn’t right either. After thinking about it, I decided on Australia. I came up with the concept of Plate Gate as a desperate measure being used to connect it. We could potentially keep on creating sequels if we use this approach, but there aren’t any plans to make any.
IGN: Why did you decide to add the concept of there being both night and day?
Kojima: We did this in Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain as well, but I wanted to properly include the passage of time in an open world. Gazing at the sky as the sun rises and sets is something that couldn’t been done in the first game, in part due to engine-related reasons, but it’s been put into the sequel.
Night scenes were far too dark at first, so we changed a lot when it comes to lighting. Cutscene lighting changes depending on the time of day too. It wasn’t easy building a game that could account for that. There are times when I want to use film-like backlighting in specific scenes, but this is a game, not a movie. What’s being seen will change based on the player. I’d personally like you to play certain cutscenes at night, but it’s fine if you see them at another time of the day too.
We also included the option to go to bed and wait for the morning before leaving. This is something we’ve been sure to include because I imagine there will be players that don’t want to travel at night. Metal Gear Solid V had a system where you could smoke to advance time, but this game does it in more natural ways, like going back to bed in a private room after waking up once.
IGN: It felt as though there’s an emphasis on strategic combat in Death Stranding 2. What kind of effect did this change have on the game’s design and storytelling?
Kojima: It’s not that I’m simply pushing combat. The game is still fundamentally about cargo delivery, but combat has become more flexible. Players have the choice to take a detour around enemies or use a car or motorcycle so as not to encounter them. This does mean there’s a need for new weapons as well, though. Some of the staff on Death Stranding 2 worked with me on the Metal Gear series, so there were times when people worried that it was getting a little Metal Gear-ish. My personal explanation for it is that we simply pursued more enjoyable combat. This is actually connected to the theme of “we should not have connected.”
This even relates to war. Our world today is connected by a rope that is the internet. But at the same time there’s conflict going on in the world. We ultimately can’t connect to each other in harmless and inoffensive ways alone. Higgs tells you that ropes on their own are not enough. Maybe we also need sticks to connect with one another. The story keeps on progressing in that direction. That doesn’t mean that you will be forced into stealth. I don’t even use stealth myself.
The Social Strand System and how it connects to real-life social media
IGN: Were you ever surprised by what players did with the Social Strand System in the first game? If so, how did that affect the production of Death Stranding 2?
Kojima: Whether players would really use the Social Strand System or not was an unknown to us. When I play the game myself, I use ladders and make bridges, but I don’t build any of the highways; I just use what someone else made. That’s why I was concerned if people would really make roads themselves when the game came out, but it turned out that a lot of people did nothing but that. That was a pleasant
surprise for me. I wanted to make sure that the sequel would have more interesting things to do for those players as well. The monorail is one such element. One point of debate within the team when making the first game was likes. They aren’t a form of currency, and they don’t make you stronger. Staff members reacted negatively to that, but I placed importance on how good it feels to receive likes even
if they don’t have any value, similar to how that feels in real life. It’s a strange game design choice, you know. But even the staff members who were against it at first ended up being pleased by the implementation in the end.
We don’t know how systems like these will be received until the game actually comes out and we see everyone’s reactions. For the Director’s Cut, we took a look at player data and decided what to remake based on the points for improvement we found there. This sequel is being developed based on the player behaviour. Personally, though, I wanted players to put down their cargo more often when they
fight. Even when we had people test the game out, a lot of them tended to believe that they’d lose their cargo since that may happen in the real world, but we didn’t make many changes to that part of the game during that time.
IGN: You are known to be active on social media, but it seemed as though there was a shift in theme between these two games. The first Death Stranding was about people connecting, while Death Stranding 2 asks if we really should be connected.
Kojima: Death Stranding was developed before the pandemic. There were movements toward division at the time such as the United Kingdom leaving the EU, and so both its story and gameplay were created based on my thoughts on that during that time. But then Covid started three months after making the game, and I was truly shocked.
Now in the 21st century, though, we have the Chiral Network… which is to say the internet. Spanish flu struck in the early 20th century, but we were able to survive this time because we were connected by the internet. We started working remotely, while concerts and live events vanished. We had no choice but to rely on the Internet. Children couldn’t go to school or play and had to stare at screens all day. I think we didn’t have any other choice at the time. You’d turn on the TV and hear about how the metaverse was the next big thing, but that isn’t how human communication works. You don’t meet people by chance that way.
IGN: So in other words, your thoughts about social media have changed, and that’s being reflected in this title?
Kojima: This may sound strange, but I made the first game based on the theme of, “We’re in danger of being divided and isolated, so let’s connect.” Then Covid hit after it came out. After actually experiencing that, I felt that maybe it’s not such a good thing to connect so much. That feeling is foreshadowed in lots of different scenes and settings, including “the stick and the rope.” I think there are portions that players
will only understand once they reach the end of the game. What I felt during the pandemic is quite strongly reflected within this title.
The logo for the first Death Stranding features strands dangling underneath the logo. These are meant to represent connection, but the strands dangle from above the logo for the second game. It’s kind of like the logo for The Godfather. This applies to Dollman too, and you’ll find enemies dangling from strands if you go to the weapons factory as well. I added a lot of moments that will make players aware of the presence of different strands. When you really think about it, what does it mean to be connected? I hope you’ll play the game when it comes out at the end of June. You’ve all gone through Covid, so there should be something to resonate with for everyone.
Casting and Collaborating with Artists
IGN: How did you approach and find new cast members for Death Stranding 2?
Kojima: As we show you in the opening, Fragile shows up when Sam and Lou are living together. That was something I wrote while we were still making the previous game. I told Léa (Seydoux) in January 2020 that I wanted her to appear in the sequel. But due to the pandemic, we were unable to record, leading to a delay at the time. At least we were able to release the PC version and the Director’s Cut during that period.
Since this game was made during the pandemic, the process took four to five years. This involves scanning and digitizing, choosing costumes, and more. It’s not as if we can shoot everything in one three-month period like a film. It had to be done at regular intervals while making everything else, and it’s pretty tough work. What determines whether you can work with someone in this kind of situation is your mutual bond. I start with the people I like, the people who I like to see in films, and the people I want to work with. I go and meet these people directly. We’ll end up knowing each other for a while, and so over the course of having meals with them and such I’m able to decide whether or not I want work with them, and that’s when I’d figure out the details through their agent.
Lindsay Wagner, who played Amelie, is someone I loved since I was young, but a younger staff member responsible for her (CG) data didn’t know who she was. They said that as they saw her face each day, though, they ended up becoming a fan. In fact, by the time production was nearing its end, they had bought the Blu-rays for The Bionic Woman. So that’s how I select the actors. I do auditions sometimes, as well, but it’s more about the connection. It’s the same for OD, Physint, and other projects, too.
IGN: Are there any cast performances in Death Stranding 2 that you like in particular?
Kojima: That would have to be Neil and Lucy. Neil is played by Luca (Marinelli), and I actually made a comment promoting Martin Eden, which he’s in. When I did that, Luca emailed me in English himself, saying that he had been a fan of mine since he was young and that he’d read what I wrote.
This will probably let down fans of Mads (Mikkelsen), but it wouldn’t be right for Cliff to return in the sequel because his story has already come to an end. That means I needed to cast someone who can surpass his performance, though I wondered if that’s even possible. That’s when I thought of Luca and made him an offer. At the time I was trying to find someone who could play Lucy as a counterpart to
Neil, only for Luca to ask if I had already decided on his partner. When I said no, he suggested his wife. His wife, Alissa Jung, isn’t just an actress but also a film director. When I met her in person, she seemed perfect to play a counsellor and so I offered her the role.
Once we ended up filming Neil and Lucy’s scenes, most of them involved the two characters on their own, which was kind of interesting. Luca is a stage actor as well, while Alissa is an actress and film director. There were times when they tried to put me aside and direct themselves!
You need a lot of people when working in a performance capture studio, such as makeup artists, record-keeping staff, and more. They were all spellbound during Neiland Lucy’s scenes. That had never happened before, which goes to show just how amazing the scenes we captured were.
IGN: How did your collaboration with Woodkid, whose music is included in the game, come about?
Kojima: When I was on my way back to my hotel during a January 2020 trip to Paris, I was introduced to Woodkid as a musician who was a fan of mine. He asked if I would listen to the music he was working on. The song was Goliath, and it was incredible. The song hadn’t come out yet, and I fell in love with his music from then on.
When I returned to Japan and watched his music videos, I was shocked to see a world featuring beach-like scenery and whales, just like Death Stranding’s. Ryan Karazija, the frontman of Low Roar who I collaborated with in the previous game, had passed away and I didn’t know what to do for the sequel’s music, but when I offered that role to Woodkid he gladly accepted it.
Just like I was worried about who would replace Mads, I was worried about the music, and I’ve gotten texts asking if it’s really possible to create a musical experience better than Low Roar’s. It was received very well worldwide, and Woodkid said to me for the first time that he actually had felt immense pressure that people would say they don’t like it and reject him because it wasn’t Low Roar, but he was assured after seeing the positive response.
IGN: How do you go about selecting which songs to use in a game? How much of your personal taste in music is reflected in that?
Kojima: Like the previous game, I’ve asked Ludvig Forssell to handle the soundtrack. Of course, Woodkid’s songs are in there, too. I pick musicians who I listen to and enjoy regularly. Similar to casting, I contact them directly and get permission to use their music, or they’ll let me know that they want to write a new song for me that I then use.
IGN: What was the most rewarding part of creating Death Stranding 2?
Kojima: I wrote the proposal for this game while isolated during the pandemic and worked on it with people whose faces I couldn’t see for the most part, only really meeting Yoji Shinkawa once a week. I imagine the same went for any studio. If we can’t all gather and we can’t shoot, what should we do? But even under those circumstances, I was fortunate to have everyone’s help as we made progress on the
game.
I’d say it was around 2021 when we seriously began performance capture work. But I wasn’t allowed to go to the Los Angeles studio at the time and had to connect there remotely from Tokyo to direct the actors there. I used my smartphone, my iPad, and all kinds of cameras, but directing remotely really did drive me mad.
Just when I didn’t know what to do, someone from Sony HQ let me borrow two window-like monitors that make two-way voice communication possible, which allowed me to find a way to record. It still wasn’t easy, though. When someone’s working right next to you, you’re able to make discoveries and realizations about what to do. But if you’re working fully remote, there are a lot of times when the timing
or details of a report get delayed. Even if someone makes a mistake, it isn’t noticed right away. Still, I think we’ll find a way to make it safely over the finish line. At the time, I really thought that it wouldn’t be possible to complete the game. So what has been the most rewarding? I think I’m just really happy that we can finish making the game.
IGN: Thank you for your time.
Photo by Lorne Thomson/Redferns.
Wesley is the UK News Editor for IGN. Find him on Twitter at @wyp100. You can reach Wesley at [email protected] or confidentially at [email protected].
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